Pacific Views

Hersh on Getting Rid of Rumsfeld

When Terry Gross interviewed Seymour Hersh last week, one area she asked about was about what will happen with Rumsfeld.

Terry Gross: 3 retired generals have called for the resignation of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld. Anthony Zinni, Paul Eaton and Gregory Newbold. Do you have any idea -- from your sources -- is that likely to happen? And also, how much dissention is there within the military with Rumsfeld's leadership?

Seymour Hersh: Oh it's been there for years. Rumsfeld is, intervenes in the most significant ways. He intervenes in the selection process - who's going to be a 3-star general, who's going to be a 4-star. Usually, the secretaries of defense stay out of of that business - it's the services business to pick their generals. He intervenes on all levels. He's completely uprooted the whole system of the Pentagon. He believes in special forces - he wants his office to have some direct control running it. He's cutting into the power of the Joint Chiefs and the service secretaries on a number of issues and so he's pretty much -- and he doesn't listen. All these complaints, I've been hearing for years. You're hearing them more and more. The three generals who spoke out are just but the tip of the iceberg. There are many more inside who for a lot of reasons don't want to talk. There's a great deal of acrimony, to put it mildly and it's only getting worse. But, he's still Secretary of Defense. You know, in my book, I've been watching these guys since 9/11 and you know and writing my little alternative history of this group and if you think - the chief players are Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld - this is a threesome. There is no way they are ever going to fire Rumsfeld. He is so much more important to them inside rather than outside and sniping. They won't have that. He may quit - if he does it will be his decision. At the height of Abu Ghraib - you know I did a lot of writing on Abu Ghraib - there was a lot of speculation that he should be fired then. I remember telling someone then, because I know something about how these guys work - No Way he's going to be fired. And if you want to know why? It's because this policy is continuous continuity - what you saw in Abu Ghraib and what you see now come back to the same small group of people in the White House - the President and the Vice-President. Rumsfeld is part of that process.